Fandom of Fandoms Podcast
Fandom of Fandoms is a podcast that dives into the worlds that fans love most — from galaxies far, far away to magical schools, epic quests, and everything in between. Each episode spotlights a different fandom, exploring its history, what makes it special, and why people are so passionate about it. We’ll chat with real fans, share wild stories, and invite you to geek out with us, one fandom at a time.
Fandom of Fandoms Podcast
This Episode Is Legen... Wait For It... DARY!
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The weirdest part of How I Met Your Mother isn’t the pineapple, the slap bet, or even Robin Sparkles. It’s how a 22-minute sitcom can still start real arguments about love, timing, regret, and what we do when the plan falls apart.
We’re putting HIMYM under a microscope: why the pilot moves like a rom-com, why the show’s nonlinear storytelling keeps rewatchers hooked, and how the “unreliable narrator” angle turns episodes into mini-mysteries. Along the way we talk Tarantino-inspired structure (without the gore), the Pineapple Incident as a perfect example of memory and misdirection, and the fandom extras that made the world feel bigger than the screen, including built-out websites, the rewatch podcast with Josh Radnor and creator Craig Thomas, plus the Bro Code and Playbook books.
Then we go to the place every How I Met Your Mother fan eventually ends up: the finale. We break down the whiplash, what it means that the story circles back to Robin, and why the ending can feel different when you’ve lived a little more life. We also dig into character questions that still spark debate: Ted as a protagonist, Marshall’s flaws, why Lily gets judged so harshly, and whether Barney’s brand of satire could even survive a modern TV room.
If you’ve ever said “the ending ruined it” or “the ending was the point,” hit play, then subscribe, share, and leave a review. Where do you land on the finale now?
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New Studio And Life Updates
SPEAKER_02All right, coming to you from Fan Cave Studios, we are back for episode 33 second episode in the new clubhouse here.
SPEAKER_01New studio space. So it's uh, you know, things are going strong. We had a a good reception of the uh the new studio space. Lots of people saying how how snazzy it looks.
SPEAKER_04Uh I noticed our um our YouTube videos went way up, so thank you guys for that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, I was impressed with how good it looks.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what really matters, obviously.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean we're doing it for ourselves, you know. And three of you, you know, you guys are great. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Anyway, those three being your significant others are yeah. Uh Ben, what have you been up to? Uh let's see. Last weekend, or not last weekend, but the weekend before, I went to Chicago with Casey and her daughter.
SPEAKER_02Nice.
SPEAKER_04That was a good time. We went to the uh Pokemon Fossil exhibit that was there. That was really interesting. Got a promo card worth like 30 bucks, which is so that paid for the exhibit itself. Nice. Uh let's see. Um, we went to the Hello Kitty Cafe, which was fascinating and spent way too much money just in general. But yeah, it was a good time.
SPEAKER_01Uh Nick, how about you? Uh let's see. This past weekend I went with my dad and my son, and we went to uh Hot Wheels Monster Trucks. Oh, nice cool. Awesome. Yeah, it was it was three generations. Yeah, it was uh that was uh actually a father's day present for both me and my dad, and it happened to fall on my dad's birthday too. So it was it was a nice little fun thing for us to to do together, but it was it was good, like it was um yeah, I mean, monster truck show, but it was cool because they they set them all up and like did it in the dark and they all had lights on the trucks and fire and dirt bikes and all kinds of cool stuff.
SPEAKER_04So it was just sponsored by Hot Wheels, they weren't like actually driving around the little Hot Wheels.
SPEAKER_01Uh well so they they did have so like Hot Wheels since they like the trucks were I'm sure they were I don't know if they were produced by them or what, but they had like the little you know versions like made by Hot Wheels as well. Yeah, you got people, yeah. Yeah, yeah. So they call like legit Hot Wheels monster trucks that these days. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that was it was a fun time, Michael.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, um, so we've been we've been spending months prepping for Mia's first birthday. So we're uh yeah, I'm really excited for you. The first birthday. I mean, you guys all know any all the parents out there know that's the biggest one, you know. Big deal. It's a big kahuna. So yeah, we're getting the families together. So yeah, we're we're excited for that. Um, yeah, but it's her birthday tomorrow, so we're gonna take a half day at work and just we're gonna do some celebrating. So excited for that. Nice. Nice, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Well, just once when I say suit up, I wish you guys would put on a suit, honestly. I'm gonna wear a suit. I feel like I I'm the only person here dressed up for the occasion. Dude, honestly, you look really sharp. Thanks, man. Well, we're talking how I met your mother today, so I thought it'd be fun for this, you know, just is something
Real Plot Or Made Up Game
SPEAKER_01for our cold open here. Uh that we'd play a little game with Mikey, because Mikey has not seen how I met your mother at all, right?
SPEAKER_02Like this year, so not a single episode. I mean, I'm sure I've seen bits and pieces. Okay, but I I've definitely never seen a full episode through the whole way. Okay.
SPEAKER_01So I I've got a little game of like, is this a real plot or or did I just make it up? So we're gonna we're gonna try and play that with you real quick. Uh, a man spends years trying to identify where a mysterious pineapple in his bedroom came from. Real or fake from how uh I'm gonna say fake. That is real. That's a real thing. The pineapple incident. We'll we'll get into it later.
SPEAKER_02Ah, okay.
SPEAKER_01Uh the gang holds an intervention because one of them won't stop doing a Borat impression.
SPEAKER_02That sounds like community, but I'm gonna say real.
SPEAKER_01It is fake. They do hold plenty of interventions, that's a thing. Not about borat. Okay. Uh I'll do one more here. Um let's see. Uh let's do Barney convinces Ted that he's been legally adopted by an elderly couple as part of an elaborate prank. I'm gonna say real. That's fake. Dang it. So obviously Mikey's lost on the on the plot points here, but we're gonna spend the next uh hour or so talking some time about your mother. It's gonna be a fun time. So let's go ahead and dive right in, Mikey. Let's hit that uh intro music. Hello and welcome to fans for every single episode. We are diving into the world of the fans the most in this episode. We're gonna be talking the fans let's take it from the top.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, let's take the music down a little bit too. The music is a little high.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay. I just messed it up. Anyways, we're talking how I met your mother. It's gonna be awesome. We're just gonna leave all that in. You don't want to take it again? Oh wow. Okay. Wow. I messed it up, and you know what? That's like the first time in a long while that I've messed up. You know what?
SPEAKER_04A long while this is maybe episode two, I'm pretty sure. Besides forgetting someone's name. But that's different.
SPEAKER_01That's also been a while though, too. That's been a good uh Well, I'm glad you don't forget our names.
SPEAKER_04Because that'd be a little awkward.
SPEAKER_01Yes. So I met your mother. I'm gonna act as the uh the expert of sorts on this. I have spent well, I guess we'll get into this later, but um, it's it's one of my favorite all-time shows. Uh if not if not my favorite.
SPEAKER_04So definitely top five for me. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Um,
What The Show Is About
SPEAKER_04so why don't you hit us with an overview and then we'll talk about our backgrounds with it since we know Michael knows nothing. Correct.
SPEAKER_01So uh it's a sitcom premiered in 2005. It was created by Craig Thomas and Carter Bays, and it ran for nine seasons all the way up to 2014. And the basic premise is that Ted Mosby is telling his children the extraordinarily long story of how he met how he met their mother. Most of the series follows Ted, Marshall, Lily, Robin, and Barney navigating friendship, careers, dating, and adulthood in New York, famous for its non-linear line. I'm off of it today. Nonlinear storytelling, callbacks, running jokes, flash forwards, and unreliable narrators. Or narrator, because it's just Ted. Uh beneath the sitcom setup, it's often surprisingly interested in growing up, regret, timing, friendship, and accepting that life doesn't always go according to plan. I think Robin narrates an episode. That's true. That's a good point.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, she does. All right. So yeah, um, Nick, wanting since being our expert, why don't you tell us a little bit about like your experience with the show?
How We Found The Series
SPEAKER_01So I have watched or I watched it all the way from day one. Um like when the pot when the pilot came out. I want to say at the time, my family was a big fan of NCIS. I don't know if I'm a year fan of the city. Classic. Yeah. It's the big change from that. It is. But if I'm not mistaken, it it was I think it was right at I can't remember if it was right before or right after when it first came on. And so right after one of our shows, I th I think it was NCIS, and it would come on right after, and I remember watching the pilot together, and then it just kind of became the thing. Like we were there to watch, I believe, like I said, NCIS, and then we'd stick around after and watch How I Met Your Mother, and it was just the first sitcom that I could. I was, let's see, I was 14 at the time, right? 13, something like that when it first came out. So it was the first five? Five. Yeah. Fourteen. Fourteen. Yeah. So almost around high school age, getting ready to start it, and uh which yeah, for sure. Like it's uh, you know, it's a I feel like there's a lot of young fans of this show. Um, and we'll get into that a little bit later on. There's been a resurgence, but um, of like these kids, like kids like my age when I started watching it, they're picking it up now and and watching it through. Um, but yeah, it was it was just the first show that I can ever remember my my family and I kind of watching all the way through and us being fans of and um back in the age of DVDs, like buying the waiting for the season to come out and buying the DVD set, you know.
SPEAKER_02We were just talking about that before recording, just the the bygone age of physical media.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yeah. But um, yeah, I I don't know, and I just watched it all the way through. It ended let's see, that would have been I guess probably 14. Yeah, I mean close to senior. I guess that would have been senior year for me. Yeah. So my senior year of college, the show wrapped up. Um so yeah, I don't know. It was kind of like an end of the era kind of thing. And I don't know. It it just was something that I still even followed and watched the episodes all the way through college, like as they were airing for the most part. I I I don't remember if I was still watching it on a weekly basis, but I'd always catch it whenever, you know, if I was buying the DVD set, I was gonna binge through all the DVDs and watch the episodes then if I missed any.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Ben, what's your background? I I don't know if it was day one, but to me, this is a spiritual successor to friends in a lot of ways. Just like the way it follows a gang around as they evolve through their late 20s, early 30s, you know, New York City, like a lot of this similar settings. They hang out at a bar as opposed to a coffee shop, but you know, um, again, a lot of like parallels there that my family were big fans of Friends, and then we kind of just carried over into this one at some point. We didn't watch it. I know I watched with my parents a good amount. I don't know if my sister was into it as much, but um, yeah, it was just a a show throughout college that I would plug in, especially because I went to architecture school to begin my college career, and Ted Mosby, the main character, is an architect, and I found not only that, but I found like a lot of other similarities between myself and Ted. So, which you know, we all like to see ourselves in the main character, but yeah, um, so you and Joseph Gordon Levitt and Ted Mosby's. I'm I'm the two of them together, yes. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01Nice. And so yeah, we already said Mikey doesn't really have any background into it. I mean, are are there any things that you would say you're aware of as it comes to?
SPEAKER_02I mean, obviously, you've probably heard us talk about it a whole lot and been lost in it. I know. I mean, so many of my friends are super into it. I've been told my whole life I'd I would love the show. Yeah, which granted, yeah, I mean, I I love all almost all 90s sitcoms. And like you were saying, Ben, I think it kind of is a you know, kind of a um successor. Yeah, successor to that. So um, for that reason I can see myself, but yeah, no, I I never never watched it. I mean, I saw bits and pieces here and there. I remember I remember you guys watching it in college in the apartment. Um, and you know, obviously I know the characters, like it's I mean, it's such a famous show, like you know, I know the plot and whatnot. Um, but yeah, no, never seen really seen a full episode through. So what a shame.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. One day we'll convince him if this if this episode doesn't convince him, we'll keep on working on Mikey.
SPEAKER_04So we just need to have a sit down and go through all the media that we've talked about today. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_02There's about 52. Well, no, no, no. We're on episode 30. I was gonna say we're on episode 33, Michael.
SPEAKER_04And there's about 26 like things I need to get into. Yeah. All right, so we've gone into how you got into how I met your mother, but what is it that keeps you coming back? And
Why It Stands Apart
SPEAKER_04I know you have this is probably one of your most rewatched shows, right? So yeah.
SPEAKER_01I can't, I don't even want to think about how many times I've rewatched how I met your mother. It's it's a lot. Um and it's it's the one that's uh just always kind of is there. And if I don't want to be paying close attention to, or if I'm you know just trying to fall asleep or whatever, I'll just put it on and kind of fall asleep to it just because it's you know the familiarity, I think, why anybody watches a show when they fall fall asleep. Yeah, you're the one that's what you do. Exactly. Um but I I do think that on the whole, um, I know this is kind of getting into our next question a little bit, but that it does stand apart from a lot of sitcoms. Like while it is, I I think a successor to Friends in a lot of fashion, you know, a lot of similarities between those two shows. I also think that at the same time it's almost nothing like Friends. You know what I mean? Like it's it's still so very different, even though it has some of those similar features.
SPEAKER_04I think basic premise, again, like it it follows those things, but there's a lot more in the show. I mean, one, it's a lot more sequential, I think, than you know, the a lot of Friends episodes that you can put on and Yeah, Friends was very episodic, just like all 90 sitcoms where there's a lot more connecting storylines, and uh like the unique thing that you mentioned is non-linear storytelling of how there's like a lot of back and forth or telling stories from multiple perspectives all at once. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So uh I I brought this up to to Ben is because it it came up, and we're gonna talk a little bit later on. There's a rewatch podcast right now, but one of the first things that came up in that rewatch podcast was the creators talking about how much they were giant fans of Quentin Tarantino. And so yeah, so they said that they create like when they were creating this show and writing the storylines and stuff like that and the plot lines, that that was always kind of like in the back of their minds, I guess, like kind of writing in a similar storytelling. That is so like random and funny. Yeah, I never really realized it until I was kind of listening along in the rewatch podcast, and they would talk about the episode. I'm like, man, that is like a that is very Tarantino.
SPEAKER_04Like, like I listened to the first couple episodes, and one of the things that struck me most is I believe they talked about like most sitcoms will record 20 to 28 or something like that scenes per episode. And that like that includes like you know, even if it's the same room or whatever, like that's one scene is you know, like a couple lines of dialogue or whatever, and then they cut something else. How much your mother was would often get up into the hundreds, like that was just they would like quick cuts to like little things that would happen, right? But like every time, even if it's in the same setting, they consider it a scene. But like again, like that non-linear storytelling, or like I'm some of the most famous ones are like you know, Ted's telling a story or whatever, and then Barney interrupts and is like, No, no, no, this is what happened, and like you know, you know, he'd tell his version of it, which yeah, very rarely true.
SPEAKER_02But unreliable narrator 100%.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that was the cool thing too. Like, I I I mean, I'm sure there's probably other shows that follow a similar uh pattern. Um, but this one really leaned heavily into that that unreliable narrator portion. Um it was so much a part of the stories that they would tell. Um, you know, Ted would would forget certain things and then like fill in the details with just like random uh bits of information as he's telling the story to his kids, and then obviously that's what the you know it that was what got acted out. And so you kind of had to realize that as you're as you're going through the show that like okay, yeah, it is being told mostly from his perspective and sometimes uh purposefully kind of getting it wrong, but at other times, you know, you you gotta kind of keep that in the back of your mind with the way that the story is is being told and how uh how he comes across or how different characters are are portrayed, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I think the the pineapple incident, which we already mentioned, is a perfect version of that, an example of that. Yeah. Because it's it's all about Ted gets blackout drunk at the bar, as you do. Again, he's you know, in his late 20s, he's looking for a romantic partner, etc. And he gets blackout out drunk at the bar. I think because he gets dared to take four shots of something, like four or five shots of whatever Carl made. I can't remember.
SPEAKER_01He was trying to get over Robin at the time, I believe. And she had come back with her new boyfriend. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is there a spoiler button here?
SPEAKER_00It's gonna be legend. Wait for it. Dairy. It's a good one. That is a good one.
SPEAKER_04Nice. Yeah, so then like the the whole episode is he wakes up in bed next to a pineapple. Well, a girl and a pineapple. Gotcha. There's just a pineapple on his nightstand, and he's and like, so it's it's constantly like he he leaves the room and is trying to figure out who the girl is because she was he woke up and she's like facing away from him. He didn't want to like you know, try to wake her up to see who she was or anything. So the whole thing is like him trying to figure out who the girl is, but also what's what's with the pineapple, you know.
SPEAKER_01Like, um he was less interested.
SPEAKER_04Marshall was the one who was obsessed with the pineapple.
SPEAKER_01Is no one curious about the pineapple?
SPEAKER_04So then, like, you know, he's trying to piece together his memory from the night because he was totally drunk, and like the and they keep introducing some more and more characters, like, oh no, actually, you called me at 3 a.m. and you this I could hear this going on, and so yeah, like you get different versions of it, you get little bit more added on constantly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's that's clever. I like that.
SPEAKER_01And it's also the uh the that goes into like that non-linear storytelling as well. Like that there it's there's like these um mysteries that go in so many of these episodes where there's something that you're trying to figure out. I mean, the entire show is a mystery, like it that's kind of the the hook, you know. How I met your mother, you're kind of waiting to find out, like, all right, well, when is he gonna finally gonna meet her? Is this the mother? You know what I mean? Like that's mysterious, and then the episodes themselves, um, you know, they they talk about this all the time in the podcast, are a lot of many mysteries that they're trying to figure out like what happened in this instance or whatever. And so that's like to me, it's different, like it it just hits different than some other um types of shows. So yeah, that's kind of what makes it stand out.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and not to mention the sometimes they didn't I feel like some episodes they do it more than others, but they would cut to Ted talking to his kids, and like the kids wouldn't like interject or ask questions um Princess Bride style, you know, of like Wait, what do you mean about like this? And you know, he'd have to explain it.
SPEAKER_02Why am I blanking on who plays old Ted? I'm Bob Saga. Bob Sagitt. Yes, that's right. So is he actually in the show or is it just his voice? Okay, it's just his voice.
SPEAKER_04So, like, yeah, the the shot of him talking to the kids is just like two kids on the couch and just like straight on just talking.
SPEAKER_01But I gathered that the cast all knew him and they they were like he would come and just hang out on set sometimes. Oh, really? Which that's funny. That's legendary.
SPEAKER_02It is nice, very cool. Well, okay, so that's a I mean, that's a great answer to the question. You know what makes us stand out from other sitcoms? So, you know, jumping to more of a starter pack. So, you know, I'm asking this for myself. Yeah.
Where New Fans Should Start
SPEAKER_02So, you know, we've got the actual show itself, we've got the podcast. I see you have some books. Yes. We've got How I Met Your Father. Yeah, um, yes, definitely start with How I Met Your Father. Where would you have someone start to get into the fandom?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you've you've got to start with the pilot of How I Met Your Mother. Uh I think arguably one of the greatest pilots ever written. Um it's because like Ben was saying, it really keeps the the story moving right from the very beginning. Like it just so much happens in that pilot that by the end you're like, man, I did is this even still the same episode? Like, how did we get from the very beginning of this show to where it ends up at the very end and it's all in a 22-minute episode? They fit a lot.
SPEAKER_02I'm impressed by that because most sitcom pilots are terrible. Yeah. Like if you go back to your favorite sitcom, just watch the pilot, it's usually not that funny. Yeah. There's not that much going on. The characters are obviously underdeveloped still. Like, I'm thinking of like I don't like the Fraser pilot. Just like it looks weird, you know? Like it's just not that good. Yeah. First couple episodes of The Office. Yeah, for sure, yeah. Weird, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I I truly think, I mean, especially for a sitcom, I I don't know that I've ever seen a better pilot.
SPEAKER_02Okay. No, that's true.
SPEAKER_01Um, and it it's because of the speed with which it moves through. Like, I most of them kind of drag on. They're trying to introduce all these characters and stuff like that. And it's so organic the way that they bring about introducing each of these characters, and you feel like you've already known them for a long time just from the the first introduction of the characters.
SPEAKER_04And they're very dedicated to the story overall. It sets up an intriguing story. It's a it's a full-on rom-com in 22 minutes. Like nice.
SPEAKER_02Very cool. All right, Nick. You know
The Case For Watching
SPEAKER_02it's that time. It is that time. Please, please, please, give us your impassioned plea for why to watch how I met your mother. I will.
SPEAKER_01Uh, I I did put some some thought into this. I'm not gonna be quite as organized as Ben. Ben did a nice job last time, but I'll I'll give it a my my best go. If you I love that you're picking a song right now. This this makes it even more comical. Now, if you're a big Quentin Tarantino fan and you want to watch a sitcom that was not written by Quentin Tarantino, but it takes those cool parts of the plot and the way that it's put together uh without the violence, you know. Or well, some violence, but like not the gore, you know, like there's a little bit. Um, but no, it's it's lots of fun. I mean, the characters are so memorable, um, and ultimately there's a lot of heart that that uh is is a part of this whole entire show. There's there's just so much. I hit on it a little bit at the beginning, that so much of what makes this show special is that it handles some of these more serious elements and dealing with not getting the life that maybe you thought you were gonna have early on in life and still being okay with it later on, like as you go about. So I think that there's plenty of lessons to be learned and lots of laughs to be had along the way. So let's go to the mouth.
SPEAKER_02We'll be talking some Robin Sparkles later. Yes, Robin Sparkles. More Robin Sparkles. Uh, that was great, man. Very great and passion for you. I'm convinced. I appreciate it. So we're gonna watch the pilot now? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04All right. Well, let's take a quick little break and we'll come back and get into some big discussion because I know Nick you have you want to break down like some of the characters on their own.
SPEAKER_01I might do, I love doing these character deep dives. Yeah, let's do it.
SPEAKER_04It's the stark contrast from Robin Sparkles. Seriously.
SPEAKER_01It's for Barney's monk guy. He's got a monk guy.
SPEAKER_04He's got a monk guy. We all yeah, we all need a monk guy. That's a bit that I feel like they that died off. That I'm I wish they had explored more. Yes. Is Barney having all these guys that the guy guys?
SPEAKER_05The guy guy. Yes. His name's Guy.
SPEAKER_04That's great. Oh, man. All right.
Rewatch Podcast And Expanded Universe
SPEAKER_04Well, welcome back if you're rejoining us to our How I Met Your Mother deep Dive. Let's start off talking a little bit around some of the culture around the show. So you mentioned the podcast. Yeah. And I know Michael mentioned the books, but like we can talk more about those. Like what else do you consume outside the show?
SPEAKER_01So the podcast, uh part of the reason I love it so much is because you've got uh Josh Radner and Craig Thomas, um, you know, the create one of the creators of the show and the the lead actor that are doing the rewatch podcast together. Um and I think that they found a really cool angle to go about when they were starting to do this podcast. Um and it just I don't know, it it really I I think aside even if I it wasn't my favorite show ever, you know, I'd still want to listen to it and kind of hear what they had to say about um just as they re-watch it and tell these stories. And I have learned things that I wasn't even necessarily aware of. Like I said, the whole Quentin Tarantino bit, like I hadn't really known that before, and it was kind of cool to find that, and then start to watch the show from that angle and thinking about it. So that was cool. Um, the other thing that was kind of cool, and I know they're trying so while the show was on, um, this was you know, obviously the the early 2000s going into the 2010s. Um they were really trying to intertwine like multimedia. So, like when they mentioned something on the show, a website, something like that, they built that website.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's cool. Marshall and Lily still sell their stuff.com, I think was one. Yeah, uh Barney's blog. Barney's blog. Wow, I like that's clever. Yeah, I like that. Just I think we mentioned this the other week, like imagine if creed thoughts was a real thing, yes, yeah. Which there was a little bit of, I think, in the office you can cover soon. But yeah.
SPEAKER_01But it I I mean, that was just a cool thing, and it obviously it it spawned to uh stuff like the Bro Code and the playbook a little bit later on, Barney's two big uh books there, and um, you know, it it's I don't know, it just so unique to kind of see that and find them not only like making this show, but then also building those websites, and they obviously shut down you know when the when the show ended, but that's part of what they've talked about on the podcast is trying to like bring bring back that stuff and put it back out there on the internet, just you know, for fun, have it have it archived, which would be kind of fun.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it should be in the way back machine, but yeah. Yeah, you're probably right. But what about the books?
SPEAKER_01I mean, what yeah, yeah. So uh I I've got them I've got them here actually.
SPEAKER_04I think to set this up, Michael. How much do you know about the character of Barney?
SPEAKER_02I mean, okay, I know his archetype, is that the right word? Like just the you know, kind of sleaze, but lovable, has renewable qualities, has a good arc, but like in the beginning, especially is just a real windbag. You sure you haven't watched this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I have the playbook and I also have the bro code. So both of those things, um, you know, I mean, just that came as a result of you know, them building those those websites, Barney's blog, and then my understanding was it was just writers, you know, junior writers on the show or whatever, um, putting together the blog, and then ultimately led to them making the the books themselves. If I may, an excerpt from the playbook.
SPEAKER_04So this is how this is how Barney would uh try to woo women. I'm ready with the trombone. Oh no, I think I well, I think you also need the bro well no, that's the broco. Never mind. Anyways, so this one's the robot. Six success rate, 50%, attracts sci-fi chicks and other robots. Requirements, oil, prep time, none. Bummers, robot voice tough to shake after play. The play. One, approach your target stiffly, and by that I mean walk with a rigid gait. Two, move your head around at all kinds of crazy angles while staring at her. Three, if she doesn't punch you first, ask her in a monotone voice, what is love? Four, before she runs away, explain that you're a robot and have just escaped from a secret military base after becoming self-aware. Now you want to understand the confusing human behavior of intimacy. Five, if she's not totally on board yet, inform her that your pneumatic oiling unit fires at the percussion rate of 2,800 blows per minute. Oh, and there's a playbook for chicks in the back half. How I didn't realize it had so much quality in it.
SPEAKER_01You know, they they put a lot of time into it. Uh, you know, a an excerpt from the bro code. Uh, a bro shall stop whatever he's doing and watch diehard if it's on TV. It's a good one. Yeah. Uh if a bro buys a new car, he is required to pop the hood when showing it off to his bros. That's good. Oh man, yeah, those are good. Wow. All right, very cool. Yeah. So uh it's fun, you know, and those those sorts of things I think made the show a little bit even just more special. Yeah. Um, and and you can kind of hear that, like just his character is all over that. You could hear him say it, some of them within the show, but uh yeah, just so many of them I could have imagined having additional scenes where he said some of these other things for sure.
SPEAKER_02I don't know if this is a loaded question, but could a character like Barney exist in today's land? So would you have so like the the playbook, for example, like in in the today's day like culture, like is that I don't know, would that fly? I don't know. Hard to say, yeah.
SPEAKER_01We're we're going so that's part of that discussion. The character deep dive is is trying to figure out uh Barney is as a character. But one thing that I will say is this is that um the way that they approach him in the show, he was never meant to be the character like the that guys should want to be like this character. Like they almost used him as a it was it they were making fun of him.
SPEAKER_04Um, at some point they like calculate how successful he actually is at wooing women, and I think he has like a four percent success rate or something like that.
SPEAKER_02It's almost like a caricature of the exact type rather than being like a yeah, he's not like James Bond.
SPEAKER_04He's like he thinks he is, he thinks he is, yes, exactly. And again, yeah, like we've talked about how like a lot of guys think of James Bond as like the typical man, and that's what Barney like wants to be. But like, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and we'll let's let's come back to Barney because there's some interesting stuff to dive into for sure.
How I Met Your Father Reactions
SPEAKER_04I think it's real worth talking real quick about how I met your father before we move on to like hot takes.
SPEAKER_01Um, yeah, so how I met your father. Uh I believe I don't know if both the creators were involved with that one or not. I think they were. Um and uh what was it? Hillary Duff, right? Hillary Duff Duff, yeah. And I so this is a funny thing, despite how much I loved High Met Your Mother. I didn't, I didn't I didn't hate the show or anything like that. It just didn't grab me in the same way. Um, and so I didn't I need to go back and I need to finish it. Uh because it only ran, I think, for two seasons. I think two, yeah. Oh, well, I thought I was one, actually.
SPEAKER_04They surprisingly got renewed, but it was two because I remember I watched season one and I didn't come back to season two. Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I it was a long time of separation, first of all. Like the the show had been over for a long time, and I think when you try to revisit it after that long, even if you're going to have the you know the original creators be a part of it, I I don't know. You you've lost some of your steam and the fact that it's a completely separate story. They did bring in they they brought in several of the characters um over the course of it. I know Robin was in it at one point.
SPEAKER_00Spoiler word, isn't Hillary Duff It's gonna be legend? Wait for it, Jerry.
SPEAKER_04Isn't Hillary Duff Barney's daughter? Is is she? I don't even know where it's a good thing. They found that out. She was, yeah, like one of one of his many okay illegitimate children, from what I remember hearing. I think that happened in season two, but I I didn't see it, like I said.
SPEAKER_01But I need I need to watch it. It was one that I just uh you know, I just didn't have the same love. The the characters to me weren't quite as as memorable. Yeah. Um I didn't they they were fine, but I I still I couldn't remember who they who they were.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, no hate, but like I think they tried so hard to cat match the same formula from how I met your mother, and without those same characters, the same setting, like even the same time frame, it just it didn't feel right.
SPEAKER_01That is true. It is very much a a time period piece in a lot of ways. Like it just I don't know. Uh because they had that was one thing that kind of bothered me, I guess, a little bit within the new show is that like the the new sitcoms feeling the need to have the people like be on their phones and incorporate technology into the show to try to be more like oh it's of the you know, this is what people how people act. And it's like I don't really want to see people like how people like yeah, you gotta be taken away from that. That's why you're watching it. Like, I don't want to see that, but that's that's one thing they did. They were heavy. I think they leaned heavily into like, oh, well now we gotta everybody's on their phones now, so we gotta incorporate smartphones into the show and all that stuff. Yeah, interesting.
Fan Theories And Yellow Umbrella
SPEAKER_04All right, so why don't you take us through a couple of hot takes that either you have or that you know of in the fandom?
SPEAKER_01Sure, sure. Um, so this one I don't know that I would classify it as a hot take, but there is a a theory. Uh it's called the color theory. And the basis of this is that um now Siri's trying to talk to me. So I don't know if it's coming through or not. But anyways, um the uh the basis of it is uh there's there's heavy symbolism with the color yellow, in that there is a yellow umbrella that early on comes into Ted's possession and you find out that it belongs to the mother. And so it it kind of takes on this significance, the color yellow and the the umbrella itself within the show. And so the theory is that um this color yellow kind of represents uh a hope for Ted, and that um it is um you know, like the that that is who he truly belongs with is is like this when yellow is associated with like when the the characters are wearing yellow, and so people would pay close attention to like what the the girls, his love interests and things like that were wearing when that's you know when they were interacting with Ted. And why it becomes such a thing is that there is the the opposites, the the opposite color, right? Would that be purple? Purple's opposite of yellow. Yes. I gotta ask my art friend here, you know. Um but yeah, it's so purple being the opposite. Well, one of the earliest episodes of Robin involves a purple giraffe, and she wears purple in the episode, and so then people would start paying attention to all of the times that the his love interests were wearing purple in the episode, or when um Ted is professing his love to Robin. I think she was wearing purple in that episode. Uh-huh. And so people, you know, it was it was kind of showing people that oh, there's this connection between oh, they're not actually made for one another. Yeah. Um, so it's there's this whole entire backstory to it. I think they've they've talked about it on the podcast. I believe they said that it was not intentional, I think is what they said.
SPEAKER_04But I think more than anything, yellow, just in general, is such a stark color on film that like it will stand out, especially like they're filming in a very metropolitan area, so like lots of greys, browns, etc. So like a bright color like that stands out. Because like immediately the only the second thing I can think of that's like yellow that stands out a lot in in the show, yeah, the ducky type. I was gonna say, yeah, the ducky type. Which not really significant, I don't think, of Ted's romantic hope. Yes, although maybe Hin Barney, you know? Oh gosh. Okay, so let's talk about the big hot take in the fandom.
The Finale Debate And Whiplash
SPEAKER_04Was as that has been in several fandoms we talked about, the end of it. Especially like the finale and how we actually end the plot.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04What what are your feelings on it?
SPEAKER_01So um when I first watched the the finale, um definitely made me upset. I never wanted to watch the finale again um after having watched it the first time. And um it's I guess uh the the biggest thing is that I I guess this is where that spoiler comes in. You know, if you don't want to know how the show ends, but it's gonna be legend, wait for it. The biggest thing is that at the end of the show you find out that Ted and the mother, Tracy, only got like, I don't know, nine years together, something like that, and then she passed away after getting sick. Um but it all comes down in the like the final two minutes of the episode. So like all of that kind of comes to light and um you know it it's it's you kind of get a little bit of whiplash, I guess. Um so I I did not like it at first, it really upset me. Um but over time my perspective has changed. And um the the biggest reason for that is because it's I realized how much when I went back and I was watching that season that they kind of led to that to begin to. Absolutely, like it was it was a part of it.
SPEAKER_04Did you did you say what the big disappointment or disappointment, but like the big twist at the very end is?
SPEAKER_01Did I not say that? No, you only said that the mother dies.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you said the mother dies, but who does Ted actually end up with?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that so yeah, at the very end, then Ted ends up going to to Robin. So that was the so I guess I didn't say that part. You're right. So he finishes telling the story. They had recorded this with the kids eight. Years ago, yeah, years before. And so they didn't shape like they stayed with that ending, despite kind of how the show had adapted and kind of changed throughout the years. And at one point there was kind of a final like instance between Ted and Robin where Robin really rejects Ted and says that she doesn't have those kinds of feelings for him. Um, and then Ted finally moves on and doesn't, you know, isn't trying to pine after Robin anymore, and so then as a part of that same thing, like after the mother dies, he's you're in present time with Ted and his kids, and then he's kind of getting their permission to go and date their Aunt Robin. Yeah, so that's that's the big thing. And uh so then he ends up at the at the end of the show with Aunt Robin holding up the blue French horn, which is circular because that's what he does on the very first episode, is that he goes and steals the blue French horn from this bistro that they went to on their first date. So then the show ends with him holding up the blue French horn to her at the at the end of the show.
SPEAKER_04So that's the I definitely have come back around, like you said, because I think initially, like I we spend the whole first or like the the whole last season like working up to we finally know who the mother is, and they haven't really even like gotten how they meet yet. We get little snippets throughout the the last season of the mother, who she is, how their paths are going to cross. But we really get separate storyline exactly initially. We really get like what five scenes of them actually together. Oh wow, may maybe more, but like you know, like it's only like the last episode, right? But they are actually together. So it is whiplash in in the sense that like we're building up so much to it, and then you get like five minutes of them together, and then oh, she died a couple years ago, and now we're here pursuing Robin again. Yeah, so it feels like what was all that for then?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and and the big thing was this like what made me come back to to appreciate it more, um, is that it kind of like like we talked about. I mean, the the it's the life that you you plan for isn't necessarily the one that you get and kind of being happy with what's what comes. And then the I guess how could I put this? Um I I I like the cyclical nature of the plot. I like how it comes back to that at the end. That's definitely a good you know, a good way to to kind of bring it back.
SPEAKER_04But the pilot, too, as Nick kind of alluded to, like, is all about Ted pursuing Robin. Like they he sees her across the bar, they have the classic Romeo and Juliet, like eyes lock, heart, hearts everywhere, like sort of thing. Like, yeah. What does Barney say? Oh, you just you just know she likes it dirty, I think is the first thing that Barney says about her.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, no, it it's I I I definitely have come back around to it, and now I I truly do appreciate um everything kind of about I don't appreciate everything about the last season, yeah. But the the way that they kind of bring it about and their the hints that they drop along the way that I think during that last season I tried to to ignore, I guess, that what the the mother's fate was going to be because you just you didn't want it to be, you know, you wanted them to be able to meet. Oh, I I remember what I was gonna say. Um the the show being called How I Met Your Mother. That the that was kind of a draw, and that led people to to watch specifically for that reason. But that wasn't what the the show was about, you know what I mean? Like it wasn't ultimately where they were trying to go and having this show be about, like it was just the hook, right? And so I I think I still like all those years I watched it from that place that I was looking for like this really satisfying ending. Yeah, right. And then when it wasn't, it was very upsetting. And then once I started to go away from that idea of like the show is about getting to that end and just kind of appreciating the the journey along the way, that was what made me appreciate the ending more.
SPEAKER_04I mean, maybe it's again just us becoming wiser and older as well, and realizing that like, you know, so 2014, we were in like just out of college or whatever, and like you know, you want that fairy tale happy ending, and you're assuming that like that's how it works and that's how you're gonna get there. But as we've experienced now, and now as we've rewatched it, we can go back to like oh no, like sometimes things happen and you have to learn to pivot, and like you can still find happy endings, even if it's not the one you thought you were gonna get.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely well said, well said, yeah.
SPEAKER_02You guys are wise and old.
SPEAKER_04Who just had a birthday, Michael? Uh well, why don't we jump into like our uh would you rathers real quick? Sure.
Would You Rather And Running Gags
SPEAKER_04Um, Mikey, we've got a lot to talk about, I know, like in terms of like characters, so let's pick out just a couple of those and let's take answer them.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, all right. I'm gonna take Nick's place here, which Nick, I just love when you do this, but you know, since you're our guest of honor here, all right. Let's see. Would you rather have to wear the ducky tie for an entire year or wear Barney's green suit from St. Patrick's Day every day for a month?
SPEAKER_01I I gotta I love that green suit, you know. Like I would want to wear that green suit. Uh he's it's uh it's definitely one of his more iconic outfits for sure.
SPEAKER_02Nice.
SPEAKER_01The Ducky Tie's funny too.
SPEAKER_02Would you rather attend a Robin Sparkles concert or a Robin Robots versus Wrestlers match? Ooh, that's hard.
SPEAKER_01It was. But uh, you know, Robin Sparkles, uh just an incredible artist. I feel like I would need to attend that concert and uh, you know, just really soak that in. Only if she plays sand castles in the sand. Yes.
SPEAKER_02All right, let's just do one more. Uh, would you rather be slapped by Marshall once a year for five years or get all five slaps over with at once?
SPEAKER_01Man, um that is so hard. Um, because uh Barney, when he lost the bet, chose to get his dold out over all eternity. Um and man, that just seems that'd be really nerve-wracking. Like just to know that you could be slapped at any moment. Like, I I almost feel like taking the five right there is just that's the safer bet because um one moment of pain versus years of paranoia.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. But it did lead for to some some really funny episodes. The slap episodes are uh slap episodes. Yes, the slap episodes. Those are some of the some of the best ones as well for sure.
SPEAKER_02Ah, nice. Uh all right. Oh yeah, go on. Oh no, I was gonna say, yeah, why don't we dive into the characters a little bit? Um so
Character Deep Dives And Flaws
SPEAKER_02we've got some so we're gonna kind of break down, I think, by character. We've got a few questions for each one. So, you know, just starting at the top here with Ted, do you think that Ted is a good protagonist?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I um I do. I I I really I enjoy Ted as a character for sure. Um so throughout a lot of it, he's acting as the the heart of the show. Um and I I think that's when he's at his best. Um you know, he he he's uh he he kind of keeps it moving in such a way that uh there's there's always this tone of hope um coming from him, and then ultimately when things go bad, you you kind of feel with him, you know what I mean? Like it just I I do. I I don't find him I think there's been if we're going back to hot hot takes a little bit, there's been some like hate, I guess. Um and even Josh Radner himself uh has hated on Ted a little bit and some of the ways that he he acts inside of the episodes. But I I don't know, I just I really like him as a protagonist. Um I don't know that I'd say that he's my favorite character in the show, but uh I you know, I love him. He's he's uh just you're always wanting to root for him. Okay. Yeah, that's good. Unlike when I would like I'm making a comparison, we've talked about friends, right? Like I don't feel like I'm always rooting for Ross. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, I agree with that for sure. Ross has some big moments where you're just like insufferable. Who are you? Yeah, well, that leads to a question: when do you feel like Ted is absolutely insufferable and like is not a good protagonist?
SPEAKER_01I uh so when they try too hard to make him unserious, like I appreciate him as being kind of the straight man, the serious man. And then when they try to make him too goofy in the show, like his pronunciation of Renaissance? Yes, the ridiculousness, like the ah man, I'm trying to think of like the the you know the ones that I don't like the most. I mean, I I don't know. The red boots? The red boots. Yeah, there's he he uh he gets obsessed with these red cowboy boots. Um yeah, that's a that's a good example. I don't know.
SPEAKER_04And he is he insists he looks good at them, but everyone's like, dude, you gotta take those off. Yeah, that's funny.
SPEAKER_01But then there were so there's callbacks on those too. Like those come back regularly, and then you finally get the real story as far as like why did he become so obsessed with them, and it was because some girl said that he oh, I think he'd look really hot in those red boots. Oh, that's he's like, Oh, I gotta buy these. Um yeah, I I don't know. Like, I that's that would be the biggest moment. Like when when they try to make him just too goofy, try try to just um because I think that that Josh Radner wanted that, like he wanted more scenes where he didn't have to be so serious and like always have to be dealing with the hard stuff in the episodes, which I get. Like it's good to have those, you know, just different moments where you're not the main focus of those emotional moments and stuff like that. Um but to me the the comedy was so much better with I mean, Marshall had so many good comedic moments, and Barney obviously has so many of the iconic, just funny things that happen in the show. Yeah, though.
SPEAKER_04I think for me, the biggest thing that I can think of with Ted that like I always like cringe at is who's the girl he breaks up with over the answering machine.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, that one. Oh that's a tough episode.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, he breaks so it's it's like a again a parallel. Yeah, he dates this girl twice, both times dating, like breaking up with her over the phone. And you find out the first time was like on her birthday, on her voicemail, while she's having a party in her apartment and everyone else can hear him. Oh my god. And so again, you're just like this, oh gosh, especially true. For someone who's supposed to be like the romantic character, it feels very out of character for him to like be so insensitive as to like breaking up with this girl for over like, yeah, like that.
SPEAKER_01That's a good point. That probably is one of the cringiest. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Well, why don't we jump to Marshall? I mean, you mentioned a second ago, you know, does he have the healthiest outlook on relationships?
SPEAKER_01Um I think that that he he can be a little old-fashioned in the way that he views things sometimes, but um because he's married to Lily, that kind of for like she's very forward progressive, that sort of thing. And so they they he then becomes that you know they they meld into to one person, so then they he does literally one time at one point, yes. So I guess the short answer would be at times no, but overall, yes. Like, I I do think that he he you know would do anything for his family. He is definitely um, you know, you just really all the time are are wanting to see Marshall succeed and good things happen for him. I mean, that's the same thing for for Ted as well, but like even more so for Marshall, like you're always rooting for him and Lily.
SPEAKER_04He's he's the teddy bear of the series. So, Michael, for context, Marshall and Lily meet their freshman year of college, literally like the first party of the year or something like that. They start dating, and ever since they've been together. So, like they're both like their only like well, no, scooter, but they're they're both their like biggest relationship, and like yeah, so they've only ever really known being together with each other, stuff like that. Yeah, um, so and Marshall comes from Wisconsin, Minnesota, Minnesota, gosh, the Vikings, duh. Um that you thought that he came from Wisconsin. I know, I'm sorry, you're right. Uh um yeah, so like he comes from Midwest, and Lily grew up in New York City, so like very contrasting, like like Nick said, she's very progressive. He's very traditional values, so like, but it's interesting to see the way that their relationship comes together and they find gives and takes in it. Yeah, yeah. What's Marshall's biggest flaw?
SPEAKER_01I think it's gotta be his dishonesty at times with his wife. Like he will um keep things from Lily, and and um and I think in the end, like he realizes like it it comes back to bite him and he realizes that that wasn't the best call. So at least like it's a flaw that then he spins the series kind of overcoming um and does better about it most of the time. The the entire last part of like the last season, he's hiding from Lily that um he's accepted this job as a judge. Oh, and so she they've made plans that they're gonna travel and go to to Italy together, but Marshall had this opportunity come up that he's he's gonna be a judge, and that's their big uh plot point throughout that final season. Um and so yeah, I I it it's them kind of dealing with that towards the very end. Um it all kind of comes to a head. And um I think Marshall kind of kind of comes to realize that like I should I shouldn't, I should have been more forthcoming. And and so I guess I can appreciate a a hero in the in the story that like can recognize his flaws and and then overcome them.
SPEAKER_04Nice.
SPEAKER_01What do you think, Ben? You you agree or no?
SPEAKER_04No, I agree for sure. I and I think you bringing up that that whole arc is very good. Uh it's it's very real. Uh, you see Marshall so conflicted about like you know going after his own dreams versus like this thing that they've agreed to together. Because was it like right before they were like baby number two was on the way or something, and that's part of why they were going to oh no, Italy. No, yeah, that was yeah, yeah. That that comes up in the last Lily Lily got a job in Italy. Yeah, that's what it was. And so like his job and uh passion versus hers, and how do you how do you do both, or like how do you choose which? Yeah, so yeah, I I I like in a lot of ways the most real couple of the show and like dealing with stuff like that. Sure, yeah, absolutely. Well, let's move on to the probably the least real character in Barney Stinson. Um how do we feel about Barney today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um like I was saying, like they at the time, I think that the show was kind of progressive for the way that it took this character and uh made fun of him. Like just it was like it was it was way out there. He he was almost a uh you know, he he was a character. There was it was there was satire that was kind of baked into who he was as a character. Um and then as the show went on to try to make him less awful, they started giving him plot lines that kind of tried to redeem his character at times. And I think that there was some success in that, and then there also was not ultimate. Like I I think there's just I don't know. I mean, they the it at one point or another, all of the characters had some sort of like thing that they dealt with or or hard time that they went through um and so or or something that like tried to bring out that that heart in them. Um and so yeah, I I I don't know. I ultimately uh if I'm giving like a great, you know, could we have a character like him today? I don't know that that P that studios would put it out there. Yeah do I think that he's too big of a push? I I don't think so. I mean you know what I mean? Like there's just there's nothing that goes on. Well, I shouldn't say that. There are there are certain things like because he does some awful things to women in the show, and I think that they would have to leave out some of them for sure some of the more awful things that he does. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_04I feel like today's version of him would be kind of like your tech bro, like, yeah, like just pushing cryptocurrency and like like all those sorts of things, and just like maybe not less womanizing and more just like pursuing that sort of like high finance life, like that sort of thing. Like I totally see that a different angle on it, but still someone that you're like again, like putting the satire into of like, yeah, this is what like some guys like really want to be, and like is that is that is that good?
SPEAKER_02Like, yeah, that makes sense. Do you think that them kind of fundamentally trying to alter his character, like to make him more redeemable? Does that work? Like, did you think that worked?
SPEAKER_01You you do feel for Barney a little like quite a lot later on in the show, like so. There's a whole um, you know, you you get to know more about his mom and his his upbringing in life, um, and then you find out uh, you know, that he wants to to meet his dad, and you find out, you know, that um just that the how their relationship kind of broke off and that his dad um abandoned him because he was a uh like his mom didn't want his dad to be a bad influence on him. And then it turned out later on in the show that his dad kind of got his act together, went and got a white picket fence, and you know, moved on with a had a new another family um and became a family man. And then Barney having to deal with that and kinda and come to terms with that, you really do feel for him quite a lot. Where I thought that it fell flat with some of it was um they also there's a there's a big relationship arc between him and Robin. Um, and you think that they're going to to end up together, and that was another big thing that came out of the the finale is that him and Robin break up. Um and and Barney regresses and goes back to his old womanizing ways and that sort of thing until eventually he gets a girl pregnant and has a daughter, and then that's uh this happens again, the very last episode. Oh then it's like another redemption of sort for him. And to me, like I didn't love like there were parts of Barney's story that you really did get the heart behind it. That wasn't one of them. Yeah, it felt forced. It did, and it it was kind of a lot like that that final episode. It was just it was so fast. I think if you developed it over time, could it have worked? Sure, but it was definitely like you he, you know, he divorces Robin, they're not together, he's back to his old ways, and then all of a sudden he has a kid and he's you know redeemed yet again. It's uh it's just weird. It was just very bad. Again, whiplash, like yeah.
SPEAKER_04Uh okay, let's move on to Robin. Uh, did the show ever truly allow Robin to be the person she told everyone she wanted to be?
SPEAKER_01I I think so. And so that's probably why ultimately her and and Barney broke up is because she the entire time she wanted uh she wanted to be a career woman. Like she wanted to be taken seriously as a journalist and and work, and you know that was that was her character um from the from the get-go. And so ultimately that does happen, and she becomes that and then kind of disappears out of everybody's lives. Um one thing that was hard. I think I sent you the scene, right? Um the cut scene I didn't know existed until just recently. There was a whole nother bit that they cut from the final episode that I thought was haunting, I guess. Where um it looks like karaoke.
SPEAKER_04Yes. That's an that's a Joe Michael.
SPEAKER_01Anyways, um where she has kind of distanced herself. You know, obviously she doesn't want to be near Ted because they once dated, and Barney they had broken up, and so she's you know, there's been years have gone by and they haven't really been together, and she bumps into Ted with his daughter on the street, and that part's in the finale, but then they add in this whole entire other scene where they go and get coffee together, like after they bump into each other, and uh Robin is filled with so much regret and kind of like just lets it all flow out and shares it with Ted. Um and then Ted uh kind of uh in in a in a way, you know, does kind of distances himself from Robin in that moment because he's he's got his you know, he's got his wife, he's got his kid, he's truly happy, and she got this whole entire career thing that she always wanted and then felt just empty about it. So I don't know. It was it was it was sad. Like, I mean, especially if you kept that scene in there, you really, really felt bad for Robin, but they did ultimately they wasn't in the the released episode itself.
SPEAKER_04Okay, now on the most important part of well, not the most important part of Robin. That's that's not fair to Robin. One of the best parts that we learn about Robin, Michael, what do you know about Robin Sparkles? We played her song earlier, yeah.
SPEAKER_02I do know that she was like a Canadian pop star, something like that. I already know that when she was a teenager, yeah, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so so Nick, what do you feel? Like, is is this a ridiculous gag that she was a pop star before or a great invention?
SPEAKER_01I thought it was hilarious. I mean, uh, all those episodes are so good. Um, I don't know that it all the time fits, like her the continuity of her character is always 100% because they're kind of throwing some of those things in there. Um, but uh it it it kind of made you understand at least a little bit about why did she want to become a journalist to be taken seriously. You know, like she already had this gig where she was a you know an icon. Yeah, an icon. I think it it at the very beginning you thought that she just had like, oh, she had one major hit, she was kind of a one-hit wonder. You find out there was a little bit more to that because they wanted they kept it going, they brought in additional songs and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_04So cutting she went through a heavy metal phase. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I think that if it would have stopped, if it would have stopped with just Robin Sparkle's Let's Go to the Mall, yeah, the story would have made a little bit more sense.
SPEAKER_04But then when they started adding in those additional, yeah, because she had her own sitcom, or not sitcom, but like a kid's comedy show, sort of like that she was on. And like again, like how is she not getting more recognized? But yeah, well, Canada. I mean, you know, you sound like Barney. Yes. But yeah, that's did we talk about Lily? I don't know we're not yet. She's next. All right. All right, so does does Lily get judged more harshly by fans than the other characters?
SPEAKER_01I think so. Um, I think that um early on, you kinda because you do so at the very this is the very beginning of the show, her and Marshall are getting engaged, and then at the end of the first season, they break off their engagement, and Lily runs off to go chase her dreams to uh because she really wants to be an artist, and so she runs off to California to take part in this art program and stuff like that. And um I I can remember like when I first watched that season being upset with like you you're kind of you you feel a lot for Marshall, you don't really want to see like Lily come back, you're kind of like you know what? No, forget her. She you know, lit leave her in the past, um, and then ultimately they do get back together and have kids together and all those things. And um, but I think that people like sometimes the fans or just the way that you look at her character arc. I I think that this is women in jail, like they get more flack for like wanting to go after the things that they want in life than the male characters do when they do the same kinds of things. Yeah. Um I think that interesting that Marshall gets a little bit more forgiveness when he does, you know, when he keeps the whole wanting to be a judge thing from Lily than Lily gets from some people when they're watching the show and when she leaves him. So I I don't know. It's I I think that that she is definitely judged kind of harshly. And then there's some other things where she um likes to to interfere in other people's lives. Yeah, I was just gonna say that's that was my next question.
SPEAKER_04Tell us about the front porch theory and is it justified?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so she would look at all of Ted's potential love candidates and uh try to determine whether or not they, her and Marshall and Ted and whoever the girl was that he was with could sit on the front porch together and play bridge in their in their retirement home. With the ongoing gag of no one knows how to play bridge. Um but yeah, so that leads her to to interfere uh in Ted's love life and try to break or does successfully break up with a couple relationships, a couple of his relationships, um which is a little messed up. Like I get it. I you know, Ted blows up and gets really angry about it, and uh I I think it's justified a little bit that she's trying to play mind games, but um I think it does come from a place of heart, you know. She she once that her and Marshall and uh Ted were best friends before her and Marshall were even you know their the item that they would go on to become. They were, you know.
SPEAKER_04So nice. All right, important question. How are we doing on time, Mikey? We are at an hour and one minute. Okay, so so we'll get let's get into a couple additional questions. Yeah, um, this is one that I have a very strong opinion about. I want to hear your opinion. Sure. Who is actually Ted's best match?
SPEAKER_01You feel man. I mean, I it's gotta. I mean, I fell in love with Tracy. Um so I ultimately I I think that's the answer that I've gotta give is that those two were made for each other. They had in the scenes that they did get together, kind of stole, you know, the the she just steals the audience's heart and Ted's heart, and you can really see them together ultimately. Um because yeah, I mean, I I at the beginning of the show you think, oh, is it is it gonna be Robin? Like, is he eventually gonna go back to to Robin? And you know, i over the course of time that they everything they go through, you kind of realize that that's that was in the past, um until it no longer is, you know, until like things take a turn, you know, until life comes along, and then you kind of go and revisit those things. So I I that's kind of part of what I like about it is that he gets both of the people that were his best matches ultimately. Okay at the end. I don't know. What's your thoughts?
SPEAKER_04I loved his relationship with Victoria.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I hands down, one of my favorite episodes is the first episode they meet. She's the uh the cake baker for uh Marshall and Lily's wedding. And so he's you know, trying to figure out who she is and stuff like that. And he's like, I when he finally meets her, and like they both acknowledge that this is kind of like Marshall and Lily, though.
SPEAKER_01I don't think I think it's oh no you're right, it's a friend. It's a friend, yeah. Sorry. Who is it?
SPEAKER_04What's the um I lost them? They're not they're I want to say Stacy is the girl's name. Yeah, man. Okay, it doesn't matter. And so it's a friend's wedding, and um, so they're trying to figure out the identity because Ted has this thing with her, he meets her there. They don't exchange names because they're like, it's either gonna be a one-night stand and I'm not looking for that, or like I don't know, it gets messy because like we're never gonna see each other again because it's not gonna work out because we don't really know each other, sort of thing. And so they spend the whole night, like this whole big romantic night together with they try to have pseudonyms that gets squashed, but he never learns like her last name, for example. And so, like the whole episode is him like again, a really good nonlinear storytelling of flashing back and forth between uh the wedding and like them talking and getting to know each other, and present day when he's like trying to fig like contact people to figure out her last name and how he can find her and stuff like that because he has such a big romantic night with her. And again, like just hand like one of my favorite episodes, and just such a beautiful, like, romantic arc, yeah. Of like, yeah, again, like them acknowledging that like we're not gonna make this a thing, we're gonna end this tonight, we're not gonna kiss, etc. This is just gonna be a one-night thing without any like messiness, yeah, messiness, and we'll never talk to each other again. But then like Ted has such a romantic night that he has to find her again. Yeah, and again, like that's I think that's one the key of Ted and like his character, and that's when he's at his best, is when he's like this non-stop romantic, and that's again, like Nick was saying, kind of the heart of the show is is him in this pursuit and how his friends support him and like make fun of him for it. But yeah, um, that's that uh and like they had a good relationship. They did, and even when they brought her back, I don't even remember why they ended up breaking up again, but like again, I just felt like Robin again, yeah. Robin, uh yeah, always Robin. It is maybe that's why I disliked it so much, especially. It's because like again, she she ended up like breaking up several relationships or good ones for Ted that yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Well, let me ask a little more serious question here. And this
The Life You Plan Versus Get
SPEAKER_02is uh I'm not being sarcastic, this is actually a serious question. Yeah. What does uh what does How I Met Your Mother ultimately say about the difference between the life you planned and the life you actually get?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I've I've gone into this a little bit already, but I so much of so Ted in this the show is such a planner. He's always Planning for his future and what he wants out of life and trying to go after it and and kind of comically, you know, coming up against these roadblocks and not getting the things that he wants for one reason or another. And um, you know, I I think that it's a reality for for so many people is that you know you you just don't always end up with the things that you want to have in life. And it it's I hate to say that like life is a series of of consolations, it can be, um but it it's also uh learning how to to just be happy in the moment and the way that things are going. And I think that that's a lot of the lessons that you can take from How I Met Your Mother center around that idea is that they you know when Ted kind of gives up the the control or wanting to plan it all out and just just go with it, that was when things kind of started going right for him a lot of times. Like forcing a relationship with Robin or like yeah, yeah, that's the whole so the whole entire the I mean it happened several times, but like at the very beginning of the show, like the very the pilot is trying to get Robin to go on a date with him. Okay, like force this situation where it can actually happen. Yeah, and planning this big romantic evening and you know, like making it happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He plans three parties for it, and it doesn't, it doesn't go well, like it's you're he's forcing it, it's just not working out, and then it happens later on, too, you know, that he goes after and he she's you know going on this work trip and he's he's determined that he's gonna make her go out with him and make it rain and tries to make it rain to cancel it as a camping trip. There's a there's a whole thing, and it's just like it's forcing it. Like he he wants to like no no no no no. I'm gonna this is what I want, this is what I'm gonna make happen, even when it's not really meant to be.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's I mean, that's the perfect like meta commentary on life in general because we all do that, yeah. You know, try to like just but force things make things happen, and it's like you know, just that's not how life goes. But but counterpoint, isn't it good to have a dream and to feel like you can make it happen?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04And the things that are truly important, isn't it good to pursue those things? Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02It is good to pursue them if you're holding them loosely. I'll say that. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And and that's the thing too. Like, I I don't have a ton in common with Ted because I didn't have like that's not my experience in life, but I know that it is like I mean, so so much of life is is uh the the loss and things like that that go along. Like that's why when I came back and and kind of started to appreciate the ending, is because he I it it just that's you can't control what happens in life. Like the bad things are going to happen, and you just kind of gotta gotta roll with the punches, you know. And so I that's what I can appreciate about Ted's love story and his whole entire arc is it's always about those things, like things just going the way that he doesn't uh in a way that he doesn't wish for them to go, and then him having to to uh come back, really take a look at um what happened and and move on, you know what I mean? Like be able to move forward, keep on going like you know what let's let's just let's find the next thing. Let's accept silver lining. Yeah, just have accepted. And I don't know, there there is some I guess the the I can appreciate that that when I when I come up against things that maybe I I wish were different, I I think about that. I think about that as kind of a lesson, not maybe not in a in a romantic sense, but in a just a lesson in general for life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I don't know. No, that was good.
What’s Next And Where To Follow
SPEAKER_04Well, we kind of end it usually with talking about what's next for the show. I don't think that how I make your how I met your father is could making a comeback. Yeah, I don't think that there's any reunion planned or anything. So I'd love to see it. Yeah, how far are they into the podcast rewatch?
SPEAKER_01You know, I I'm actually a little bit behind because I was watching listening to every episode as it came out, but um last I checked, they were going, they were somewhere in season three. Okay. Um, and so I I imagine at this point they've got to be like pushing into season four. Like they've they've got to be getting there.
SPEAKER_04Plenty, plenty of ways to go still, though, too.
SPEAKER_01Oh, for sure. Um, and yeah, they they just it's it's been really, really well done. Um, I definitely need to go back and catch up on the episodes that I've missed. Um, and I'll definitely be be tagging Carter Bays and uh or Craig Thomas in uh the the show here, trying to get some. Gotta make that happen. But um that was actually funny enough, that was one of our our biggest posts for Phantom of Fandoms is when I I posted, I didn't get to mention this in the podcast, but I read uh Craig Thomas's debut novel, That's not how it happens, and I wrote a little review about it, and then I posted it on our on our social media and he reposted it. Yeah. No way he did.
SPEAKER_04Wow.
SPEAKER_02Man, I wish I was on social media to see that.
SPEAKER_04Well, you know, I have a tie to uh a fame, like a claim to fame with How I Met Your Brother 2. Oh, yeah. What's that? I uh we've talked about this, right, Nick? Probably okay. Uh so Josh Radner uh went to uh Kenyan. Yeah, Kenyon University.
SPEAKER_02Are you serious? Oh, wait, Kenyon College?
SPEAKER_04Or Kenyan College, yes, okay. Um which is right next to Mount Vernon, which is where the three of us went, for those of you who don't know. Um, but anyways, while I was at Mount Vernon, I answered a Craigslist ad to help with some graphic design. I remember this. It ended up being a movie that Josh Radner wrote and was filming on Kenyon College. That is so crazy. So I made a couple of props, like prop designs for the movie. Liberal arts, right? Liberal arts. Yep. Heck yeah. So that's my tie-in. I have that's incredible. Somewhere in my email, I have a copy of the scripts. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really?
SPEAKER_04Wow, that's cool. You should print that out.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, no, I I um I don't know that they could ever, you know, bring it. I I hope that one day we could get a reunion of some sort. That'd be really cool. Um, you know, from what I gather, uh you you just sent me a post the other day about how Josh Radner talked about how the cast just isn't really close anymore. They moved on to other things in life, kind of the same way that the the friend, the gang, moved on in life and went and did their own things. And so um I I think there's something beautiful to that, I guess. I think there's something that that it's real, yeah. It is, it's real. Um just yeah, not coming back and just having to to hit it or you know to to get the cash in on the nostalgia just for the sake of it. And so if they do, I will certainly watch, but I'm not holding my breath for it. And if it never happens, I've still got the show, and so that's fine with me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, awesome. Well, great job, Nick. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Yeah, that was beautiful.
SPEAKER_01I'm glad that I got to talk about it, honestly. I've been dying to talk about I made mother, so this was awesome.
SPEAKER_04And and again, as always, we could keep going. We didn't even talk about so many things. We didn't talk about Marshall's dad. Yeah, and like that being that being one of the most emotional episodes ever. We didn't talk about oh gosh, so much broke me. Yeah, so yeah, but uh maybe we'll revisit someday. But regardless, we really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. Uh hope you guys at home, if you haven't watched it, think about watching it. Yeah, I'm thinking about it. Yeah, again, let's all watch the pilot together.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, even though I feel like I gave away most of the storylines throughout there. But that's just it, you know, like it's not about the the you know, the story itself, it's about kind of watching the the winding road that it all takes and everything. So awesome. So what's uh coming up next, Nick? Oh, well, this is I mean, this is Mikey that should probably take this one. What is coming up next for the podcast?
SPEAKER_02Uh guys, I'm so excited. So next week, well, in two weeks, uh, we're gonna be talking Smallville. Yeah. So Smallville is I don't know. Is it my favorite TV show of all time? It might be. It's up there. Okay. Um, definitely my favorite drama like drama of all time. Um, and so that's it's about Clark Kent um before he becomes Superman. And it's yeah, early 2000s show. So honestly, really similar to what you were saying, Nick, just you know, growing up with it basically, like in my you know, early high school years. And so um, yeah, I'm I'm very excited to talk about it.
SPEAKER_01You're gonna get to educate us because I don't Ben, you're not yeah, you guys don't really I have watched it all the way through once.
SPEAKER_04You have to do that. I probably like I I I'll remember snippets here and there as not one that like it was as an adult too, so like I don't have an emotional attachment to it, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01Is it streaming anywhere, Michael? Where can I go and watch it?
SPEAKER_02It's been it was on I rewatched it on Hulu over the last couple of years. I think it's I want to say it is still on Hulu. Is it okay? I'll have to look and see if I can watch a few episodes. Yeah, I'll get back to you on that. I'll send you some homework episodes. All right, yeah, do it.
SPEAKER_01I'll watch it for sure. Yeah, I'm excited for that. Well, as always, we uh we thank you for listening along or watching along with us. And um, you know, we we got some great stuff coming up. Uh uh we're still not done with our our hitting on the the sitcoms. So here in just a another episode or two, we're gonna hit the office, so that's gonna be pretty fun. Yeah, but uh yeah, it's we're we got some big stuff coming up, and it's gonna be a good rest of the year for sure.
SPEAKER_04Well, we hope you enjoyed hearing about today's fandom. Thanks for joining us. Give us a follow on Instagram or threads at FOF.pod to stay up to date with all the latest, and check out the video version on YouTube at fandomoffandoms. Have a fandom that you want us to dive into? Send us an email at fandomofpodcast at gmail.com. Until our next adventure, keep being passionate, keep being curious, and keep being a fan.
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